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we've gone from

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platinum with this table to diamond

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james diamond williams please come up

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and merle wilbur

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[Applause]

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i have to tell you how this panel came

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about

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my husband and i were

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doing

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retirement planning that's funny because

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we never retired but

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we're doing doing a safe planning

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at the law firm of coolidge wall lpa and

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i ran into merle wilburning whom i knew

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briefly or somewhat

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because his wife is a librarian at the

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law school here or his partner at the

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law school here at the university of

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dayton

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and we started talking in fact we talked

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a couple of times and i discovered that

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he in fact was the lawyer in the 1970s

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when he was working for uh i don't know

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is it this law firm i guess he was then

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because he was in dc first

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um and he represented the ohio players

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in all their contract negotiations and

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dealing with their copyright

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um issues and and getting cheated out of

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money or not getting cheated out of

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money um he he played a big role in

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helping the ohio players

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to survive the

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economic issues of the time especially

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of the things that were done against

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musicians because musicians knew about

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music but they didn't really know about

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that kind of planning and he was a big

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help he also has a guitar in his office

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that hopefully he'll talk about i think

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i've seen it i'm not sure that i have

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so i want to introduce james stiman

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williams some of you may have seen him

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at the levitt center

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11th pavilion recently leading the ohio

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players he's the only man i know who can

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play drums sing

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and talk and emcee a concert all at the

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same time

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i was pretty impressed

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he's he's a one-man guy in charge of a

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great great band

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and merle

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he has a history that i'm sure we're

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going to find out about it please join

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me in welcoming them

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for this conversation which i will not

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moderate okay

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thank you very much i'm murrah loberding

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and uh

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i'm not a funk person i'm a lawyer

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and

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i learned a lot over the years but i met

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the ohio players in 1976 almost 45 years

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ago

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i know and i've worked with them ever

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since but i've also worked with a lot of

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other groups over the years including

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shadow who had

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diamond's brother ken lincoln

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passed away

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so some of the things i talk about are

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going to be generic or relate to other

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groups and not necessarily to the ohio

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players but more than that uh

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i want uh diamond to really talk because

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he's he's lived it for 50 years and he's

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he's a pretty good lawyer himself uh

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because he learned through it that uh

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for someone actually i want to talk

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about a number of things including that

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you were the first drummer of the pep

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band for the university of dayton

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yeah yeah

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during the first symposium that we had i

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guess

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that you had here at the

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university today they

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invited my guitar player clarence chet

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willis because he's a graduate of

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university david

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but tiny i guess did anybody know that i

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went to ud myself for a couple years

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march with the ud band i was one of the

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first pep dam drummers at dvd arena

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so i thought i had to include that in to

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let you know a part of the family here

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too

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i uh

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didn't graduate from the university my

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music career took uh presidents

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and uh i became a part of the ohio

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players during my senior year but

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you the uniform here in a couple years

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yeah did all right did all right and

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the last panel they all talked about

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where they went to high school and how

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that influenced that

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did you go to dunbar i went to denmark i

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went to dunbar

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um the last panel and i guess i'll

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explain a little bit about my history

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and in

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being a daytonian

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went to highview elementary school

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and started playing drums when i was

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about seven or eight years old

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my mother and my father were influenced

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in music and my mother played paul

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reed's in high school she played

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everything from hobo to bassoon clarinet

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saxophone anything they had to read and

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my mother played my dad was a consummate

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musician and kind of messed around with

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jazz a little bit and

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my mother had the occasion one time i

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had an uncle that was gonna give to the

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family a double strain base a string

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based uh

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upright base

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and she told me she had instructed me

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that your uncle's gonna come over you

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read about this in my book

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if your uncle's gonna come over and he's

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gonna give you a strained bass and all

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you have to do is say you like music and

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when he says what do you want to play

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you say string bass do you have that and

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i said yes i got that

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during the week we went over that

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process okay your uncle's coming over

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this weekend what do you like to play i

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like to play music what do you like to

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play straight bass

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okay so when my uncle knocks on the door

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i opened the door my mom says you're

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officer you said son i hear you like to

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play music yeah i like to play music he

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said what do you want to play i said

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drums

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and my mother looked at me like are you

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kidding me

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but i knew in my heart at seven or eight

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years old that i wanted to be a drummer

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yo

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and

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i started taking it my mother got me a

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drum snare drum after that and i started

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taking private lessons i took 10 years

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of private lessons at howard and some

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other places and actually my high school

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teacher mr william edwards was my one of

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my private teachers likewise and

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i went on to play

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uh with the with the dunbar high school

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band in the eighth grade and was taking

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solos and went through all city

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orchestra and all city band here in

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dayton for a number of years i received

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music scholarships at miami university

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for four years and i received a full

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scholarship to kentucky state university

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and then

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transferred to university of dayton

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where i had a full scholarship likewise

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in music

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markston

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drummond people course during the high

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school

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years and trying to get in these bands

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that were they were talking about all

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these bands that were going around but

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nobody really thought i could play a

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set of drums they just knew i could beat

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on drums as far as marching around and

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so there was one occasion when

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the majestics it was the majestics at

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that time clarence willis and hollis

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nelson they had a drummer

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doug

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and uh duncan had cramps well i went to

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his show and duck called cramps in his

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arms and he couldn't play and i was

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standing there they had the kitchen of

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being there

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they knew i played this i said you know

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his name went chet and it was clearance

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i said cleaners you need somebody to

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help you please yeah can you can you sit

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in and i sat in

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and

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i took the job with the majestics the

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majestics turned into a group called the

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overnight low

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and

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during that period of time we were going

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around and the ohio players were playing

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around and stuff like that and we had

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the occasion of playing with

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the over the ohio players in a place

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called the lakeview palladium

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and um

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i thought at that time i said well the

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overnight knows about you know one of

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the best bands in the city here and we

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which is going i've never seen the ohio

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players and i said you know we're just

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going to kind of kind of mop these guys

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up around here you know what i mean

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and uh

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my wife who's who's my wife now today

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she's my girlfriend then

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and uh we went to the show and i told

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her i said you know we kind of dust

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these boys off well we went on the show

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the overnight low went on the show

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and we did okay

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when the ohio players came up they

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swatched us like swashbuckers

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they just mopped us all over the place

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and i was quite embarrassed i tell you

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what i was quite embarrassed but i told

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my wife then my girlfriend then my wife

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now

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i told her i said that the band was

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great the fan was just absolutely

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fantastic i said but the drummer

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greg webster played a shuffle beat with

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the band all night long he was good with

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the shuffle i said but he didn't play

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anything

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quote unquote funky for with the bear

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and i said if i ever get a chance

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to play with this band

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i'm going to take his job

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those words went up to

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to the skies

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two years later marvin pierce who had

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been with the overnight low as a trumpet

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player and had gone on to to get with

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the ohio players called me up and he

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said jimmy he said you know we need a

253
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drummer um greg has gotten sick and we

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need a drummer for the group can you sit

255
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in this weekend and you're working i'll

256
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say no we're not working so he said come

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on and sit in greg got sick he was in

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the hospital

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remember i told my girlfriend that if i

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get a chance

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so when i got a chance

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i took full advantage of it

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they went to the hospital and they let

264
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go of greg who coincidentally was the

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leader of the band they let him go at

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the hospital

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they said we found a drummer that

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drummer was me

269
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i got with the band and the influence of

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this band to be one of the ohio players

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was

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truly that you were one that we

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considered one of the best musicians in

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ohio well i aspired to to play drums all

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of my life not having the opportunity

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but the opportunity was given to me by

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this band

278
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and

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so we took full advantage of it we

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started my first romaine was junie

281
00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,880
morrison in the band

282
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,360
he turned out to be a brother-in-law of

283
00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,480
me because he married my wife's sister

284
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,760
carolyn

285
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,920
and

286
00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:10,720
he was my first roommate and we went on

287
00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,920
to to write some incredible music i went

288
00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,920
to

289
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,760
denver high school highview elementary

290
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:18,320
dunbar high school and furthered my

291
00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,560
education but that's how i got here to

292
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:23,200
the pumpkin post symposium

293
00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:24,800
and uh when i when i read the

294
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,320
the subject matter of what i was

295
00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,360
supposed to we were supposed to talk

296
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,920
about

297
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,440
that's a pretty funky subject

298
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,079
uh the

299
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:36,560
of the of the band um

300
00:10:34,079 --> 00:10:38,480
that in some parts i don't even want to

301
00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:40,079
participate in talking about i can tell

302
00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,000
you about some funk

303
00:10:40,079 --> 00:10:44,640
as being the drummer with the ohio

304
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:47,440
players and if this is a funk symposium

305
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:50,320
i'm at the right place

306
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:52,880
and that means i'm at the wrong place

307
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,959
all i know about is the legal stuff but

308
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,600
diamond and i've worked together for

309
00:10:54,959 --> 00:10:59,680
almost 50 years now great relationship

310
00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,680
ladon his wife is wonderful noah's

311
00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:04,560
children his daughter shelley is just

312
00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:06,720
worldwide successful uh on broadly i've

313
00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:09,279
seen her in aida on broadway she's in

314
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:11,360
europe now just wonderful success and i

315
00:11:09,279 --> 00:11:13,279
appreciate the family story about how

316
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,800
the jeans come down and

317
00:11:13,279 --> 00:11:17,279
i don't know if she only played the read

318
00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,279
or not oh shelley plays four instruments

319
00:11:17,279 --> 00:11:20,800
yeah she she started playing drums and

320
00:11:19,279 --> 00:11:23,040
then my rem and all that stuff and she

321
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:25,440
played flute keyboards and ended up

322
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,839
playing french horns so she's great

323
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:30,160
but she's she's a choreographer and she

324
00:11:27,839 --> 00:11:32,320
sings and she doesn't know yeah she's

325
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:35,040
director now i'm working with dizzy on

326
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:38,160
some major major projects sir so anyway

327
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:40,320
as you get into the ohio players

328
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:42,320
one of the legal things you all do is

329
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,320
sign contracts with record companies so

330
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,760
i'll sort of walk you through the record

331
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,279
com some of the record companies you

332
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,040
worked with and desire you understand

333
00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:50,800
you start out with westbound correct

334
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,560
that was the first um

335
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,560
they signed with them when you joined or

336
00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:56,320
did that they were already signed i

337
00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:58,000
individually didn't sign with westbound

338
00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,880
but the ban was signed with westbound

339
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:03,440
correct okay and then after westbound i

340
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,760
think the next company was mercury

341
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:08,800
record you made a lot of your big songs

342
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:11,200
of mercury yeah i i initially signed

343
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,600
with mercury and my first album was the

344
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:16,000
ecstasy album with westbound

345
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:18,240
um i got with the man when funky worm

346
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:21,360
came out i was a drummer and i got a

347
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:24,560
gold record on my wall for funky worm um

348
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:26,959
but i did not record the funky worm

349
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:28,800
and when i got with the band

350
00:12:26,959 --> 00:12:30,800
i was so hoping that funky worm wouldn't

351
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,519
be our only hit

352
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,519
uh musically it wasn't as stimulating as

353
00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:38,079
i thought that you know i wanted to

354
00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:39,839
achieve in my career and um

355
00:12:38,079 --> 00:12:42,160
but i was i'm very happy to play the

356
00:12:39,839 --> 00:12:44,880
song every night we we ended up signing

357
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:47,920
with mercury and we uh we wrote three

358
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:50,320
platinum albums in a row uh one of them

359
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,880
i think one of the feats that no other r

360
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:55,760
b band had done at that time

361
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:57,120
yeah yeah so the great ones there uh

362
00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:00,560
uh i think

363
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:02,560
no which one not that one

364
00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:03,760
this one honey honey you did that with

365
00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:06,320
mercury though

366
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,320
that's one of your real big big sus yeah

367
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,160
that album won the grammy for its album

368
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:14,160
concept and design

369
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:16,560
it also had the song roller coaster yeah

370
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,720
which was a separate as a single was yes

371
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:21,360
it was a winner too yeah one of the

372
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,120
great things one of my pride and joys is

373
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:25,920
i could this is

374
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,600
beat up unused but i got an original uh

375
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,680
cover of this and i got it signed with

376
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:32,160
all seven people in it so it's a real

377
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:33,600
treasure for me in it but but a major

378
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,279
record and then of course this was

379
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:38,639
another one this one was in the movies

380
00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:41,279
too you might talk about it yeah mr mean

381
00:13:38,639 --> 00:13:42,480
i don't recommend the movie

382
00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:44,639
but uh

383
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,839
but but the music was good and then the

384
00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:49,440
concept behind the the

385
00:13:46,839 --> 00:13:51,199
film uh we didn't really see the film at

386
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,519
all people would call us in the studio

387
00:13:51,199 --> 00:13:55,279
and describe what was going on within

388
00:13:53,519 --> 00:13:56,959
the film and we would write a song about

389
00:13:55,279 --> 00:13:58,959
it appropriately and that's how that old

390
00:13:56,959 --> 00:14:02,399
thing came about

391
00:13:58,959 --> 00:14:06,000
and following that was uh stuff arista

392
00:14:02,399 --> 00:14:08,800
yes yeah and right as arista started

393
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:11,360
three of us left [ __ ] chad billy becky

394
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,839
myself formed a group called shadow

395
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:17,199
uh right after that album it was about

396
00:14:13,839 --> 00:14:19,279
time for us to do something else

397
00:14:17,199 --> 00:14:22,560
we wrote three albums with shadow on

398
00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:23,760
arista on a lecture a label

399
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,440
uh

400
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,199
and we

401
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,990
produced to help write another album

402
00:14:27,199 --> 00:14:32,000
with leon ware on his on his

403
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:34,000
[Music]

404
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,360
one of the things about aristotle i

405
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,160
always pronounce it

406
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,720
but

407
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:41,360
whatever it is it is uh

408
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:43,839
headed by clive davis the music mogul

409
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:46,160
still live he's 90.

410
00:14:43,839 --> 00:14:48,800
right at 90 next next april i think he

411
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:51,440
turns 90 years old still the major four

412
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,760
senate you may remember uh when whitney

413
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,079
houston passed away he was a big part of

414
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:58,480
that variating on it but he's a big part

415
00:14:56,079 --> 00:15:00,079
so when he signed uh he wanted the they

416
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,000
were signed and wanted to meet with him

417
00:15:00,079 --> 00:15:04,720
and i went out to los angeles with the

418
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:07,040
ohio players and and went to meet clive

419
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:09,519
davis myself with him which was just an

420
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:12,079
amazing thing uh he was in the beverly

421
00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:14,000
hills hotel and i he gave me a copy of

422
00:15:12,079 --> 00:15:16,079
his book at the time and he talked about

423
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:18,480
there that every month he had spent two

424
00:15:16,079 --> 00:15:21,279
weeks in new york and two weeks in los

425
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:24,079
angeles at the at the beverly hills and

426
00:15:21,279 --> 00:15:26,480
his suite at the beverly hills hotel

427
00:15:24,079 --> 00:15:30,160
was about the size of this room

428
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:31,759
it was gigantic or so never forget that

429
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,160
uh coming there and i was just

430
00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:36,240
dumbfounded how big it was and of course

431
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,720
i'm being a typical lawyer i show up in

432
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,880
a gray suit with the best steven you and

433
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,800
marshall jones was there in overhauls

434
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,480
you know and uh i know yeah that's

435
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,079
that's a pretty good picture of the way

436
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,160
music is uh

437
00:15:46,079 --> 00:15:50,880
the lawyers look like lawyers or the

438
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:53,199
suits as they call them or so but uh but

439
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:55,440
that opportunity to meet with climb was

440
00:15:53,199 --> 00:15:57,920
a real big thing for me and

441
00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:00,880
really great great opportunity and of

442
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,320
course all those things involved uh

443
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,399
music most of people here are the

444
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,320
musicians they probably know how they

445
00:16:04,399 --> 00:16:07,920
the record company contracts work that

446
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,600
you get a budget then you got to produce

447
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,519
a record if you want to talk about that

448
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,279
as well

449
00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:15,600
well they uh

450
00:16:13,279 --> 00:16:18,079
well yeah you get you get a contract you

451
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,480
get a budget you have to um do all the

452
00:16:18,079 --> 00:16:23,040
things necessary to support

453
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,639
creating and making that album which is

454
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,240
spinning union dues and all that stuff

455
00:16:24,639 --> 00:16:28,399
and all the people that you hire you

456
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,680
know if you are any ancillary people to

457
00:16:28,399 --> 00:16:32,160
help you out

458
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,399
you take your your money out of it for

459
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,480
session time and all that stuff and

460
00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:38,639
at the end you hope to have some money

461
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:41,839
left so you can split it and buy some

462
00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:44,079
mcdonald's sandwiches on the way home

463
00:16:41,839 --> 00:16:45,680
um but yeah that kind of that that's how

464
00:16:44,079 --> 00:16:47,680
it kind of works

465
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,440
yeah and i talked with you know some of

466
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,800
the other ones particularly wasn't true

467
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,040
of the ohio players because they were

468
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:55,360
major stars when they went with mercury

469
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,600
or aristo or any of the other companies

470
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,680
they recorded with they're a major force

471
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,279
and they can say what they want you know

472
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,360
i've talked with a number of other

473
00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:05,919
budding stars who are trying to label

474
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,839
and what i've observed then is that the

475
00:17:05,919 --> 00:17:09,039
record companies want to control you for

476
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:10,799
life and

477
00:17:09,039 --> 00:17:12,079
really force you to sign you know this

478
00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:13,839
is your only way to get into the

479
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:16,880
business is you sign this to you and

480
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:19,039
then we control you and so that's a huge

481
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:21,039
difference but the the ohio players were

482
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:23,360
completely different because they were

483
00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:25,280
they were major huge stars and they

484
00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:27,439
could negotiate on the terms that they

485
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,120
wanted so a big big difference

486
00:17:27,439 --> 00:17:31,520
yeah we kind of told the record company

487
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:34,080
that we we could do it all

488
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:36,080
um a little bit different from motown

489
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,919
where motown and

490
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,240
barry gordy would you know write all the

491
00:17:37,919 --> 00:17:42,000
songs they give you a choreographer they

492
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,520
give you makeup people and they charge

493
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,520
you accordingly and they take all your

494
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,120
money you don't have anything

495
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,200
the ohio players

496
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:51,120
were a group that said we want to do it

497
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,919
all we want to produce we want to direct

498
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:56,160
we want to write we want to do it all we

499
00:17:53,919 --> 00:17:58,799
do we need you no other than your money

500
00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,480
we don't need you we want to do it all

501
00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:02,480
ourselves and we were one of the only

502
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,720
bands at that time because we were

503
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,799
coming out of a doo-wop era if you

504
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:09,120
remember it was all the shot likes and

505
00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:11,520
the dramatics and this group and that

506
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:13,760
throughout group the other and ohio

507
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:16,000
players were one of the first bands that

508
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,679
was an integrated band that did all of

509
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,679
that themselves

510
00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:22,000
write all the songs and produced it and

511
00:18:19,679 --> 00:18:24,320
directed it and everything so we were

512
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,720
quite you know and at the direction of

513
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:29,120
clarence satchel who i must admit

514
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,960
um was a was a very bright and

515
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:33,760
intelligent guy

516
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,440
because in a lot of cases again the

517
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,039
record company would ask for certain

518
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,880
amount of property

519
00:18:37,039 --> 00:18:41,200
be it the songs fifty percent of the

520
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,360
publishing or fifty percent of the songs

521
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:46,400
and we came in saying we're not giving

522
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:47,679
you any of that we want it all which is

523
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,840
the reason why we still have our

524
00:18:47,679 --> 00:18:52,559
publishing we're able to do some things

525
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,000
today because of his brilliance

526
00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:55,679
and

527
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,840
so yeah that was that was the name of

528
00:18:55,679 --> 00:19:00,640
the game yeah sanchez and of course i

529
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:04,520
remember sanch uh uh very well sadly he

530
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,520
passed away around 1995.99

531
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,960
yeah people with mental broke so one of

532
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:15,200
my favorite guys yeah it's great one of

533
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,919
my favorite guys uh i just really

534
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:20,960
enjoyed being lee but that was a good

535
00:19:17,919 --> 00:19:22,480
example of uh the publishing rights and

536
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,640
you talk about that let's talk about

537
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,840
that some more because

538
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:29,440
you all would have seven songwriters and

539
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,760
you didn't give away your publishing

540
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,360
rights and that earns money today and

541
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,440
not only earns money every time they

542
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:38,960
play your songs but you've had a lot of

543
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:40,960
people if we could talk about the other

544
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,280
singers out there the other bands the

545
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:45,919
commercials or so all the books are

546
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,080
using music and songs that they write

547
00:19:45,919 --> 00:19:50,400
and they continue the dinner in music

548
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:52,960
it's one of the great lessons of

549
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:55,039
legal lessons of the music business and

550
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,600
the great examples what the ohio players

551
00:19:55,039 --> 00:20:00,160
did as as diamond said they kept it but

552
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,919
they they've had great success

553
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,400
yeah i mean there's been just a number

554
00:20:01,919 --> 00:20:07,280
of bands and views of music i mean from

555
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,919
red hot chili peppers to snoop and

556
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,520
just you know too short you know and

557
00:20:09,919 --> 00:20:13,840
just a number of musicians that have

558
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:16,240
been incredible alex blue young and paul

559
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,919
jackson junior and just you know just a

560
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,400
lot of musicians that have used the song

561
00:20:17,919 --> 00:20:23,120
along with the advertisement thereof of

562
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:25,919
hell's kitchen using fire for 18 years

563
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:28,400
or 14 15 years is the opening and

564
00:20:25,919 --> 00:20:29,280
and a lot of movies that have used our

565
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,679
music

566
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:34,400
the rav4 commercial

567
00:20:31,679 --> 00:20:36,880
using our song fire for to sell some

568
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,880
cars and and all of which is just just

569
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,760
great because again the publishing we

570
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,840
own

571
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:45,280
and that rav4 commercial paid me enough

572
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:47,200
money to buy me a rap for myself

573
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,760
so all of those things are just i mean

574
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,760
it's just absolutely fabulous and for us

575
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,039
to have had or for

576
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,320
some of the other band members who have

577
00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:57,120
had the vision

578
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,720
um to to look ahead and

579
00:20:57,120 --> 00:21:01,360
make sure that we had those things in

580
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:03,520
our property which is unbelievable

581
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:05,679
you mentioned earlier a question of some

582
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,440
of the earlier musicians that have come

583
00:21:05,679 --> 00:21:09,600
before not only that have passed away

584
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:12,559
but you know and i get you know because

585
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,919
of guys ages that were on the panel i

586
00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:15,840
want to go back a little bit further

587
00:21:13,919 --> 00:21:18,000
than they went back i'm going to go back

588
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,080
to where there was zeke

589
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,799
and malcolm taylor

590
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,559
and

591
00:21:20,799 --> 00:21:25,039
archie caldwell

592
00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:27,120
and there was shannon bill

593
00:21:25,039 --> 00:21:28,799
and there was joe arnold

594
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:32,080
and there was

595
00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:33,679
uh just just a number of jazz musicians

596
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,640
around this city that people know

597
00:21:33,679 --> 00:21:38,799
nothing about prince davis

598
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:41,039
you know and just people that displayed

599
00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:43,679
a lot of incredible music

600
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:46,240
and we had a jazz lab here in dayton we

601
00:21:43,679 --> 00:21:48,320
had different jazz places my dad used to

602
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,840
take me around when i was 13 14 years

603
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,880
old they called me a little kid playing

604
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,080
jazz

605
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:56,159
and there were

606
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,159
archie caldwell and and

607
00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:02,159
george mcpherson the mcpherson guys

608
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,720
george and archie mcpherson just

609
00:22:02,159 --> 00:22:06,880
incredible there was a booty woods and

610
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:09,440
played second trumpet for doc

611
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:12,159
severnstein uh that was from dayton ohio

612
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,320
just had a lot of incredible musicians

613
00:22:12,159 --> 00:22:17,039
joe arnold was a drummer and chad and

614
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,960
bill were incredible drummers at that

615
00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:21,679
time and just a number

616
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,919
larry woods and

617
00:22:21,679 --> 00:22:26,880
in the woods brothers out of roosevelt

618
00:22:23,919 --> 00:22:29,679
being ben wilson out of roosevelt just

619
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:32,720
just incredible musicians that were from

620
00:22:29,679 --> 00:22:35,200
this era and we drew from those guys as

621
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,799
ohio players we drew for those guys and

622
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,240
that's where a lot of this fun got

623
00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:39,760
created just to answer some of the

624
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,480
questions and give you a few more names

625
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:44,320
of people that were influenced

626
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,520
that's and we were talking about uh

627
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,280
record companies we talked about

628
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,880
westbound we talked about mercury we

629
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,039
talked about arista and then you also

630
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,679
did one with entertainment

631
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:55,440
entertainment entertainment that that's

632
00:22:53,679 --> 00:22:57,840
somebody who just put something out and

633
00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:00,640
stole a concept

634
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,880
as you know as they would have it now i

635
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:05,600
wasn't part of the band when that came

636
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,360
out but i was you were

637
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,520
yeah i put my name on the back of them

638
00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:12,400
so that's one of my favorite albums

639
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,799
that's one of your favorite

640
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:17,919
all right you were yeah that's right

641
00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:20,400
that's right but uh but

642
00:23:17,919 --> 00:23:23,039
diamond you talked about satch being the

643
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,840
leader at the time and he was the leader

644
00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:27,760
i mean i i knew it well that

645
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:30,240
admired his talents

646
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,000
he was a wonderful person

647
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,520
but at some point you became the leader

648
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,280
so you might want to talk about how that

649
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:38,159
came about

650
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:40,159
after the uh separation of of

651
00:23:38,159 --> 00:23:41,760
shadow and ohio players and we formed a

652
00:23:40,159 --> 00:23:43,840
group of channels there was a time where

653
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:47,440
we got back together and that was around

654
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,559
82 or 83. sugarfoot was was working on

655
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,480
an album

656
00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:53,600
with uh

657
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:55,600
what no with a label and uh and he

658
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:58,240
needed some songs in fact he tried to

659
00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:00,240
turn some songs into this to this label

660
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,480
and they rejected him

661
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,400
and he needed some songs and billy beck

662
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,960
and check myself were still playing

663
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,960
together and working and sugarfoot asked

664
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,840
us to come back he was sugar at that

665
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,120
time was working at the troutman studios

666
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,400
on salem

667
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:16,159
and

668
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,799
so he asked us to come together and the

669
00:24:16,159 --> 00:24:21,360
album was a sugar kiss album that he put

670
00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:23,200
out and so we got back together to help

671
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:24,559
him with some songs the songs got

672
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:28,320
accepted

673
00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:29,279
and around 83 or 84 i became

674
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,279
the

675
00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:33,039
leader and the manager of the ohio

676
00:24:31,279 --> 00:24:35,440
players

677
00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:37,440
with sugarfoot and the encompass

678
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,360
surrounding members of billy beck and

679
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:42,240
clarence willis and myself

680
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:45,200
we formed the band back together

681
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:48,320
and then in 1988 we did a song called

682
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,320
ohio players back that was off the

683
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,279
record company called

684
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,880
no

685
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:57,760
track records out of seattle washington

686
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,360
and track records was a record label

687
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,600
that had also

688
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:03,919
other bands that had track records that

689
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:06,400
was the concept behind the the title of

690
00:25:03,919 --> 00:25:08,960
the record company so they had average

691
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,120
white band they had some other groups

692
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,880
that had track records

693
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:15,279
we wrote a song for average white band

694
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,960
on that album called

695
00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:19,600
love at first sight

696
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,919
so um and after a couple years they

697
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,760
didn't have really the

698
00:25:21,919 --> 00:25:26,400
uh the wherewithal to really make it

699
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:28,640
within the music business um it's very

700
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:32,159
competitive and so they kind of

701
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:35,679
disbanded and we continued on our way um

702
00:25:32,159 --> 00:25:38,159
trying to continue our music and and

703
00:25:35,679 --> 00:25:40,720
entertain people around the world and so

704
00:25:38,159 --> 00:25:42,880
since 83 and 84 i've been

705
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,360
the flag flying the flagship ohio

706
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,120
players since the captain

707
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:49,600
you brought up sugar i'll talk a little

708
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:52,080
bit about sugar sugar bonner as many

709
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,640
people was the image of the ohio players

710
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:57,600
because he had this gigantic

711
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,360
afro and sugar was just he was

712
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,840
just a wonderful wonderful guy one of

713
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:04,720
the things sugar and i we were born

714
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:07,039
about a month apart and uh so he always

715
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:10,960
likened me because we were both pisces

716
00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:12,480
and uh that was a big deal for pisces

717
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,200
for him and

718
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:18,320
we had lots of conversations together i

719
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:21,279
remember once a different time i was in

720
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:23,440
los angeles we were staying at the um

721
00:26:21,279 --> 00:26:24,880
what was the continental high house

722
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,919
sugar always called it the continental

723
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,120
riot

724
00:26:25,919 --> 00:26:28,960
yeah

725
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:32,400
yeah exactly right across the street

726
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:34,400
from the from the comedy store so

727
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,000
but i remember because we had for some

728
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,760
reason we had the afternoon and i spent

729
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,840
the whole afternoon talking with sugar

730
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,200
and he was talking about his philosophy

731
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,039
of life and

732
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,679
the more i talked to him i thought the

733
00:26:43,039 --> 00:26:48,640
smarter he is you know it was a lot of

734
00:26:45,679 --> 00:26:50,559
people would downgrade him but he was a

735
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,120
smart smart guy i

736
00:26:50,559 --> 00:26:55,440
liked him very much i was with him i was

737
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:56,720
with him the day he died they died at a

738
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,559
hospice

739
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:02,159
in

740
00:26:57,559 --> 00:27:04,320
2012 13 in january january so

741
00:27:02,159 --> 00:27:06,559
sugar was wonderful very fond of him

742
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,960
very fond of him but very fond memories

743
00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:10,960
of him and

744
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:13,039
you know and we'll talk about that a

745
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,400
little bit too because

746
00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:17,360
he died

747
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,279
sanchez died pee-wee meadow brooks died

748
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:22,080
marshall jones died

749
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:23,840
uh they all have passed away but as you

750
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,760
were talking about before

751
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,919
their royalties their publishing rights

752
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,760
continue on you know there may be

753
00:27:27,919 --> 00:27:31,919
arguments on who gets them

754
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,480
but they don't die when you die so you

755
00:27:31,919 --> 00:27:36,399
know part of the legal world that

756
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,799
and diamond knows this and we'll be

757
00:27:36,399 --> 00:27:40,640
working on is his own estate plan where

758
00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:42,799
you take care of

759
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,320
the future for you and your family as to

760
00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:46,159
how you want to handle and make sure

761
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,919
that the

762
00:27:46,159 --> 00:27:50,640
publishing rights and those royalties

763
00:27:47,919 --> 00:27:52,399
continuing your name so

764
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,720
so i think i think about all of those

765
00:27:52,399 --> 00:27:56,720
guys you know marshall jones i had lots

766
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,120
of conversations with marshall he wanted

767
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,640
to write a book and he was collected as

768
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:02,640
and stuff

769
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,240
so that's good and marvin pierce you

770
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,480
don't mention marvin of course as you

771
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:09,120
know he's in he's been in australia for

772
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,440
what 20 years or so yeah a long long

773
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:13,520
time his

774
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,440
son grew up there and he's been a very

775
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,799
successful businessman down there i've

776
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,600
seen him a couple of times that he's

777
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:23,200
came back to the u.s or so but uh he's

778
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:25,039
been very successful in australia and

779
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,760
billy becker's is still playing with

780
00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:29,279
y'all yes yes so i saw him over the

781
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:32,000
weekend we were in

782
00:28:29,279 --> 00:28:34,720
hopewell virginia and um

783
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,039
bethesda maryland this weekend yeah and

784
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,039
one quick side story of billy because

785
00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:41,600
there's been a lot of talk about the

786
00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:43,840
exhibition going on in the redlining and

787
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,240
all the difficulties in the in the black

788
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,080
community all the troubles they had and

789
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,880
i remember billy beck coming to my

790
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:53,360
office so it was probably 1980 it would

791
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,760
take a couple years or so and asked me

792
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,760
if i would go with him to winter's bank

793
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,600
because he could not cash a check by

794
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,480
himself and you're lying to go over and

795
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,399
i thought boy that's a real lesson

796
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,399
and what's wrong with our community or

797
00:29:04,399 --> 00:29:08,159
so and when they're still trying to work

798
00:29:06,399 --> 00:29:10,799
on it one of the things that always

799
00:29:08,159 --> 00:29:12,640
sticks with me about billy billy believe

800
00:29:10,799 --> 00:29:14,880
will you've obviously lived with him for

801
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,640
45 years i've known him about that a

802
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,799
great guy and

803
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,840
a great musician

804
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:21,840
and he talks about

805
00:29:22,159 --> 00:29:24,960
getting some grammys on his own is that

806
00:29:24,159 --> 00:29:27,679
right

807
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:30,720
billy yeah of course yeah yeah he's

808
00:29:27,679 --> 00:29:33,600
just a incredible songwriter um just a

809
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,919
little bit about sugar foot

810
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,880
you know every every great band every

811
00:29:35,919 --> 00:29:41,279
band of any significance always needs to

812
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,960
have a good front guy you know it's it's

813
00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:45,200
almost imperative you have somebody

814
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,960
who's going to be a good friend guy

815
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,600
i'll tell you what we couldn't have had

816
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:54,120
a better one having sure before

817
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,120
i called him the black mick jagger

818
00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:58,640
you know he's just that guy that you you

819
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,919
just always remember and

820
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:04,480
and as a musician incredible as a

821
00:30:01,919 --> 00:30:06,880
lyricist unbelievable

822
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,039
the story writing and the lyric set now

823
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,080
we had to kind of clean it up sometimes

824
00:30:09,039 --> 00:30:13,120
but

825
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,919
but just an incredible storyteller and

826
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,720
uh

827
00:30:13,919 --> 00:30:19,120
just like i mentioned the musicianship

828
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:21,279
just unbelievable you know he had

829
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:24,000
problems at the end of his tenure as a

830
00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:26,080
musician he had kind of arthritis in his

831
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,760
hands and all kinds of stuff and

832
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,840
they had gone back during the time when

833
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,960
i got in the band there was no no

834
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:35,600
greater guitar player around

835
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,840
than sugarfoot leroy sugarfoot bonham

836
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,080
and likewise marshall being a bass

837
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,240
player you know i know bootsy loved

838
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,080
marshall and you know i had my things

839
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,880
with marshall

840
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:49,919
and never really appreciated

841
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,360
his technique and his ability until i

842
00:30:49,919 --> 00:30:53,120
stopped playing with him and went back

843
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:56,240
to listen to some things that that kid

844
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:58,640
played and it's just unbelievable um

845
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:02,320
but the band was in compass peewee as

846
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,320
you mentioned was a handful

847
00:31:02,399 --> 00:31:06,000
people could play trumpet and saxophone

848
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,399
and uh

849
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,240
but just that down-to-earth intelligence

850
00:31:08,399 --> 00:31:13,200
that that kid had been around him and

851
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,799
marshall was just a colorful individual

852
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,799
you know these these guys were so

853
00:31:14,799 --> 00:31:18,880
eclectic in different aspects of their

854
00:31:16,799 --> 00:31:19,919
lives and to get with them was just an

855
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,799
array

856
00:31:19,919 --> 00:31:25,039
of

857
00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:27,200
colors of whatever fashion or cars or

858
00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:29,200
music or whatever that you might be

859
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,360
interested in that one of the guys knew

860
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,200
what was going on i mean totally knew

861
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,399
what was going on in that in that

862
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,159
instance

863
00:31:34,399 --> 00:31:37,919
and so it was a treat and a joy to be

864
00:31:36,159 --> 00:31:40,399
with those guys you know

865
00:31:37,919 --> 00:31:42,799
um but yeah we had a lot of fun we wrote

866
00:31:40,399 --> 00:31:45,440
a lot of music and uh

867
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:47,760
and we missed those guys a lot

868
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:50,000
he'd talk about marshall pass one one

869
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,080
personal story about marshall and i like

870
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,840
marshall i remember we went on marshall

871
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,559
and i went out to lunch when he lived up

872
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,080
on peter's bike at the test

873
00:31:56,559 --> 00:31:59,919
and in fact i remember going to a

874
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,440
birthday party at his house at peter's

875
00:31:59,919 --> 00:32:04,000
bike and i was the only time i could

876
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:07,200
literally feel the music the music was

877
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,279
so loud for me my chest was thumping

878
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,679
yeah

879
00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:13,919
it was a big party but what i really

880
00:32:11,679 --> 00:32:15,600
what i was thinking about was the time

881
00:32:13,919 --> 00:32:17,279
we went to lunch in the afternoon he

882
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,679
took me to his house

883
00:32:17,279 --> 00:32:22,080
and he had a big room not this big

884
00:32:19,679 --> 00:32:24,320
obviously but a big room where he had

885
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,240
created the solar system

886
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,679
on the ceiling on the ceiling in the

887
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,000
black and the

888
00:32:27,679 --> 00:32:32,159
all the planets they were in perfect

889
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:35,039
proportion it was it was one of the most

890
00:32:32,159 --> 00:32:36,799
amazing sights i've ever seen and uh and

891
00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:39,039
he was talking as a sign on brother

892
00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:41,840
towns he was doing some um sand

893
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:44,240
sculptures yeah

894
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,200
good but i'll never forget them we still

895
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,720
had

896
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,720
phones then so i could have taken a

897
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,720
picture of it it was just spectacular

898
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,600
and he had taken the time to make sure

899
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:55,440
that all the planets were in the exact

900
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,440
correct proportion to where they are in

901
00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:00,240
real life it was a real

902
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:03,200
sign i'll never forget on that one and

903
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:06,960
sugar sugar obviously was the front man

904
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,960
it was good fun and he had a guitar

905
00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:12,159
sugar gave me two guitars

906
00:33:10,159 --> 00:33:15,039
one i told him once i really liked the

907
00:33:12,159 --> 00:33:17,519
guitar so sugar came into my office one

908
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:18,880
day he hands me a guitar

909
00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:20,880
about this tall

910
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,760
you know one of his toys or us or

911
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,480
something

912
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,480
and he laughed

913
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,840
but later he gave me one of his electric

914
00:33:27,919 --> 00:33:30,960
guitars that i have hanging on my wall

915
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,679
there and

916
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:36,880
signed it and a real pleasure but sugar

917
00:33:33,679 --> 00:33:39,360
is it was one of my true friends

918
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,519
i remember i said i was with him the day

919
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,519
he died but maybe two days before he

920
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:46,320
died he was still very lucid and we

921
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:49,200
talked had a long conversation he was in

922
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:51,679
hospice at the time and i was just again

923
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,279
amazed at how smart he was and how

924
00:33:51,679 --> 00:33:56,240
thoughtful he was

925
00:33:53,279 --> 00:33:58,080
and how much he cared about people so

926
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,159
what i've learned over the years in

927
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,240
terms of dealing with the with the legal

928
00:34:00,159 --> 00:34:04,240
issues is

929
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,799
these are great human beings they have

930
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:10,159
the you know the same opportunities same

931
00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:12,480
same challenges that we all have and

932
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:14,720
it's really been interesting for me to

933
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,200
help them work through a number of

934
00:34:14,720 --> 00:34:20,240
transactions number of opportunities and

935
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:23,599
a challenge or two along the way and

936
00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:25,679
always enjoyed working with diamond

937
00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:27,520
as i talked about diamond a couple days

938
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:29,520
ago reminding him that

939
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:32,639
some years ago and his daughter shelley

940
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,399
was starring in aida

941
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:36,720
they helped me get tickets susan and i

942
00:34:34,399 --> 00:34:38,560
were there and we're in the

943
00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:40,720
third row and who comes in and sits

944
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,760
right behind us with diamond and lagaan

945
00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:44,159
and

946
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,320
uh went through the uh went backstage

947
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:48,399
afterwards and out to a restaurant with

948
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:51,359
some of the chaos from that you know one

949
00:34:48,399 --> 00:34:53,679
of the great times of my life so i thank

950
00:34:51,359 --> 00:34:57,599
you again for that and

951
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:59,359
it was a very great memory on that so

952
00:34:57,599 --> 00:35:01,040
and you could talk a little bit you

953
00:34:59,359 --> 00:35:02,720
you've been smart enough and you're the

954
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,920
leader of it then you're able to deal

955
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:05,839
with it

956
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,760
and so i think you've been avoiding a

957
00:35:05,839 --> 00:35:09,920
lot of the problems of booking agents

958
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,760
and managers managers always seem to

959
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:16,599
want a cut of everything that you do

960
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,599
even if you i sure do yeah

961
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,400
you as the manager take that now that's

962
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,599
right that's right

963
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:26,800
we we we've been very fortunate to uh

964
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:29,119
i don't know we kind of dodged a lot of

965
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:31,280
bad things but we we fell into some

966
00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:32,880
potholes likewise we

967
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,200
signed with some management it just

968
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,880
didn't work several times i want to

969
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:40,240
mention the fact that

970
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:42,079
marshall jones mitchell wrote a book

971
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:45,040
and marvin and i

972
00:35:42,079 --> 00:35:47,680
are involved right now and

973
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,440
turning that book and some other ideas

974
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:53,040
into a movie we're working on a movie

975
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,040
about the ohio players right now

976
00:35:55,599 --> 00:36:00,480
so you might see us on the big screen

977
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,720
soon talking about our days and times

978
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,720
and memories that we've had been in the

979
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:06,320
span

980
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:07,359
but yeah we've been we've been quite

981
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,520
fortunate

982
00:36:07,359 --> 00:36:11,280
dealing with a lot of aspects of this

983
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,800
business here

984
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,920
and the ohio players are just a great

985
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:17,280
story and uh i've been fortunate to just

986
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,760
sort of

987
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:22,880
see how not only they perform as a

988
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:25,359
museum busy group musicians but how they

989
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,359
perform uh in the world of business the

990
00:36:25,359 --> 00:36:29,359
business of music and there are lots of

991
00:36:27,359 --> 00:36:30,640
books out there lots of challenges in

992
00:36:29,359 --> 00:36:32,640
there and

993
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,359
i've had the opportunity to see how they

994
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:38,000
dealt with those challenges and

995
00:36:35,359 --> 00:36:39,440
become very successful and

996
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,800
keeping those publishing rights at

997
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,440
moralities is probably the biggest

998
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,400
success of all

999
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,480
that'll

1000
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,800
carry through forever so that's that's

1001
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:51,200
all wonderful i think there may be some

1002
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:53,040
questions in the audience and actually i

1003
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,599
have a question do i get to ask a

1004
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,680
question you need to talk about motown

1005
00:36:55,599 --> 00:36:59,839
and then you talked about ohio players

1006
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,760
did anybody in in the

1007
00:36:59,839 --> 00:37:03,920
leftover from the motown days or any of

1008
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,520
those people getting residuals like the

1009
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,920
ohio players are in some of the fun

1010
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:10,240
groups you know yes sharon i could

1011
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,960
answer personally about that but i would

1012
00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:14,880
imagine that people like stevie who's a

1013
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,400
friend of mine stevie wonder

1014
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,320
he probably snuck in and started getting

1015
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,240
some of his stuff after a while you know

1016
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,079
some people like that um

1017
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:24,320
probably the temptations or whatever but

1018
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:27,040
for the most part the earlier artists

1019
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:29,839
that motown signed you know they they

1020
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:32,000
took away most of the rights

1021
00:37:29,839 --> 00:37:35,880
that's terrible but anyway so another

1022
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,880
time let's take some questions

1023
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:40,560
thank you dr grotto um

1024
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,320
just a couple of questions

1025
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,320
let me see

1026
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,920
a couple questions one thing you are my

1027
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,240
hero because when we talk about people

1028
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,800
grew up i mimicked you on playing the

1029
00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:53,119
drums i'm a drummer and i remember

1030
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,520
everything you did when you did the rose

1031
00:37:53,119 --> 00:37:57,359
on skin tight and fire i always said why

1032
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,760
do you do that and i used to watch one

1033
00:37:57,359 --> 00:38:02,240
thing i was uh played in the red berets

1034
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,440
too i followed that back in the women's

1035
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:05,760
turban and then back in there with the

1036
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,839
red berets and i followed your career i

1037
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,560
always wanted to be jimmy diner i had a

1038
00:38:07,839 --> 00:38:12,720
fro i had everything and i'll have it

1039
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,720
down but you know it's big so i wanted

1040
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:16,800
to mimic you and stuff like that and you

1041
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:18,160
you you're my hero

1042
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,040
always my hero because i remember i met

1043
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,720
you was a little boy uh we lived on a

1044
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,040
private street on ridge dale sac state

1045
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:27,520
on marathon and by colonel white high

1046
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,480
school and sash said he said if you

1047
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,960
wanna call me you gotta climb over the

1048
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,119
fence and i met you because you had some

1049
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:35,359
you had uh some jogging suits on you're

1050
00:38:33,119 --> 00:38:37,040
setting like this by the pool and i

1051
00:38:35,359 --> 00:38:38,640
talked to you and you gave me some you

1052
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,079
talked to me said let me tell you man

1053
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,160
keep on playing and keep on doing this

1054
00:38:40,079 --> 00:38:44,240
keep on doing that and i just i took

1055
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,720
that and i got the energy and i got that

1056
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:48,320
energy and you gave me fuel for love and

1057
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:49,920
plus you know and then i started going

1058
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,440
to church because you always you come

1059
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,960
back home i understand you go to church

1060
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,520
a lot of the guys played in churches and

1061
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,440
i admired that that's big christian

1062
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,599
christian love and i understand where

1063
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,280
you're coming from uh one other question

1064
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:02,400
is this was two more little small

1065
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,240
questions

1066
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,079
the harmony that you did because i

1067
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:07,920
always thought it was women singing in a

1068
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:11,119
group but how did i come up with that

1069
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:13,440
high pitched background voice

1070
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:16,480
well again we the ohio players came out

1071
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:18,880
of a doo-wop area where the shot likes

1072
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,640
dramatics stylistics all those groups

1073
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,400
are happening and then most of those

1074
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,079
groups they had somebody singing hi a

1075
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,960
high pitched voice

1076
00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:26,400
um

1077
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,280
sugarfoot didn't have a high pitched

1078
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:31,359
voice and actually billy beck and myself

1079
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,680
are the high-pitched voices

1080
00:39:31,359 --> 00:39:35,760
uh on the first two or three albums you

1081
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:38,160
know on the westbound on the mercury

1082
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:40,000
situation skin tight firing probably

1083
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:43,440
honey too and then we hired

1084
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:45,440
clarence chilled bills and and chet uh

1085
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:48,000
gave us an another high-pitched voice

1086
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,839
and we added within those harmonies but

1087
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,920
it was just the concept of trying to

1088
00:39:49,839 --> 00:39:54,320
emulate those singing groups that were

1089
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,800
singing and selling songs you know quite

1090
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:58,480
prevalent you know um during that time

1091
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,520
with shylax are you kidding me you know

1092
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,040
what i mean

1093
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,440
and dramatics and all those groups that

1094
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:05,920
we that we played with at the apollo are

1095
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:08,319
different you know and not to mention

1096
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,160
uh you know people like marvin gaye and

1097
00:40:08,319 --> 00:40:12,480
all kinds of people like that that were

1098
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,240
happening at that time stevie had a

1099
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,079
high-pitched voice you know for a while

1100
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:17,760
stevie seemed quite high

1101
00:40:16,079 --> 00:40:20,079
um i was

1102
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,000
i was kind of baffled i

1103
00:40:20,079 --> 00:40:24,079
kind of took back when i'm out there

1104
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,880
with stevie for a lot of time in fact

1105
00:40:24,079 --> 00:40:30,079
there's a story where stevie helped us

1106
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:32,560
name fire the fire song we're staying in

1107
00:40:30,079 --> 00:40:35,680
his hotel in in l.a

1108
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:37,040
stevie told me this the story back to me

1109
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,440
when my daughter was the associate

1110
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,280
director for the motel musical and had a

1111
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,800
chance to sit with stephen he said

1112
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,040
diamond you remember the story i said

1113
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:47,680
stevie just tell it back to me so i know

1114
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:50,480
that i wasn't lying about it and so he

1115
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:52,800
told me the story that that we came in

1116
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,480
with the rhythm tracks for fire and

1117
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,319
stevie was standing next door to me at

1118
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,079
this hotel he was working on

1119
00:40:56,319 --> 00:41:00,160
intervisions at the time he played his

1120
00:40:58,079 --> 00:41:01,760
tracks rhythm tracks to me and this

1121
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,119
night i came home and i said steve i

1122
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,359
want you to listen to this track we just

1123
00:41:03,119 --> 00:41:07,359
did this track they wouldn't call fire

1124
00:41:05,359 --> 00:41:09,359
to sandwiches or red hot it was good

1125
00:41:07,359 --> 00:41:10,880
rhythm track and stevie said man this

1126
00:41:09,359 --> 00:41:12,560
track is so hot you can call this thing

1127
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,119
in and you call it rocks you call it

1128
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,520
whatever the strike is hot we said hi

1129
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:20,560
hmm it's hot steve he said this track is

1130
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:23,119
high we said oh we're gonna call it fire

1131
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,800
and that's how we came up with that name

1132
00:41:23,119 --> 00:41:26,720
and so

1133
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,920
the back and forth that we had during

1134
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:29,839
that period of time was just

1135
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:32,880
unbelievable um

1136
00:41:29,839 --> 00:41:34,960
but yeah we we were we were influenced

1137
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,560
by a lot of partners you know a lot of

1138
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,800
artists that were around at that time

1139
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,880
and we were quite fortunate okay and

1140
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,160
then my final question is this if you do

1141
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,440
a movie

1142
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:49,040
uh uh who will play you in the character

1143
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:51,680
on this now let me always

1144
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:53,599
uh uh howard would play you

1145
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:56,640
i thought that would be i told you i'm

1146
00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:56,640
somebody like ginger

1147
00:41:57,599 --> 00:42:02,560
somebody like that

1148
00:42:00,319 --> 00:42:02,560
you know

1149
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:08,400
i want to make sure that everybody

1150
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,560
remembers that i don't know whether you

1151
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,400
said this or not diamond but diamond

1152
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,240
played the pride of dayton marching band

1153
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:18,400
here at the university of dayton

1154
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:21,200
is that true yes yeah i know

1155
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,680
yeah i just want to make sure you get it

1156
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,800
another question anybody

1157
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,800
[Music]

1158
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:31,119
how did ohio state come up

1159
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,640
did they approach you with uh putting

1160
00:42:31,119 --> 00:42:34,319
that song on the

1161
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,160
ohio

1162
00:42:34,319 --> 00:42:38,319
because that's when everything no matter

1163
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,240
where we are in the country when we

1164
00:42:38,319 --> 00:42:43,599
when we see that everybody's ohio state

1165
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:45,680
fan but when they hear o h i o

1166
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:48,000
than we think about you know

1167
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:50,640
we wrote that song thinking that ohio

1168
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:53,599
state would take on that concept it was

1169
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,640
written for the for the sheer purpose of

1170
00:42:53,599 --> 00:42:57,599
saying

1171
00:42:54,640 --> 00:43:01,200
ohio state should accept this

1172
00:42:57,599 --> 00:43:03,440
they still play hang on soup

1173
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:06,079
i'm saying what did they do when you got

1174
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:09,119
the ohio what's written as a marching

1175
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:11,280
band song i was out of a marching band

1176
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:12,640
but that's that's the state song for

1177
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:15,200
ohio

1178
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:17,040
not just ohio state i know all about

1179
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,880
that we did a gig with the guy that did

1180
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:22,720
it three years ago i still don't

1181
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:24,640
understand why they don't use ohio

1182
00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:27,440
and i'm gonna get down to columbus one

1183
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:30,400
day and ask them the band director as to

1184
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:32,640
why the concept the marching concept the

1185
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:35,440
beat behind it everything is written for

1186
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,440
marching band

1187
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,720
i don't know straight from ohio it's

1188
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:43,040
like why aren't the ohio players in the

1189
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:44,400
rock and roll hall of fame

1190
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,079
you know

1191
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,400
we're from ohio

1192
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:50,640
we get an influence on everybody but a

1193
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,200
lot of people in here we've been around

1194
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,640
long enough you know what i mean

1195
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,359
but

1196
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,280
you know we continue on you know we just

1197
00:43:57,359 --> 00:44:00,560
we just got a chance to play the levitts

1198
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,160
this year

1199
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:04,720
and uh we're looking forward to coming

1200
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,680
back next year as a matter of fact you

1201
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:06,880
know but

1202
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:10,240
here we are

1203
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,240
at the punk symposium

1204
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:15,200
hello my name is shanita shine turner

1205
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,680
and

1206
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:20,839
i when i was in college at wright state

1207
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:24,319
university i was a music music

1208
00:44:20,839 --> 00:44:26,319
major and so i was focusing on classical

1209
00:44:24,319 --> 00:44:28,880
music and all that wonderful stuff i

1210
00:44:26,319 --> 00:44:30,960
even wanted to be an opera singer

1211
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,000
but then i started looking at other

1212
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:37,280
things going on in the music arena

1213
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:40,319
and i asked my vocal teacher

1214
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,839
what about the music

1215
00:44:40,319 --> 00:44:43,760
business

1216
00:44:41,839 --> 00:44:46,319
side of music

1217
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:48,319
and i wanted to learn more

1218
00:44:46,319 --> 00:44:50,079
well she she couldn't give me more at

1219
00:44:48,319 --> 00:44:51,520
that time but only recommended

1220
00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:53,680
possibilities

1221
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:57,040
of going to some schools

1222
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:59,520
like on the the east coast or west coast

1223
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,599
to learn about the music business so

1224
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,040
here's my question there's a great deal

1225
00:45:01,599 --> 00:45:04,560
of attention

1226
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:07,599
of the

1227
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:10,160
performance of music and less attention

1228
00:45:07,599 --> 00:45:12,800
on the business of music

1229
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:14,079
how do we increase educating our music

1230
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,160
performers

1231
00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:18,960
on the business of music

1232
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:20,640
learning the do's and don'ts publishing

1233
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:24,079
ways to make money

1234
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:26,000
streaming your music and so forth

1235
00:45:24,079 --> 00:45:28,480
that's my question your question is a

1236
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,200
great question thanks for asking there

1237
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,359
is

1238
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:34,000
you know out of the

1239
00:45:31,359 --> 00:45:36,000
50 50 split of being a musician and

1240
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,960
being a businessman

1241
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,640
you know

1242
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:43,200
the 50 sign of being a businessman

1243
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:45,040
supports you being a musician

1244
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:47,200
and what i mean by that is if your

1245
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,960
business is not together if you don't

1246
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,440
understand that the concept of being a

1247
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,680
musician business is being in business

1248
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:56,880
to make money and you have to make money

1249
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:58,960
in this business oftentimes people as as

1250
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:02,000
artists we grow up as artists wanting to

1251
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:03,760
play you know you get a musician around

1252
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,200
with his instrument you tell him because

1253
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,280
you we grew up with our mother and

1254
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,960
father saying ah jimmy show them how you

1255
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,960
can play drums show this show and you

1256
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,880
get get to be a big ham

1257
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,640
as a kid growing up and you don't

1258
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,319
realize that this is a way for us to

1259
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,240
make money and this is a profession i

1260
00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:20,480
can make and create something out of my

1261
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:22,720
life to support my family

1262
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:25,599
that aspect comes with education there's

1263
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:27,440
no there's no substitute for education

1264
00:46:25,599 --> 00:46:28,880
the importance of reading the book and

1265
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,960
reading the importance of what this

1266
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,800
music business is all about

1267
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,480
you've got to open up a book and you've

1268
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,079
got to be able to understand what these

1269
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,400
contracts say

1270
00:46:36,079 --> 00:46:40,720
and it's legalese and each and every and

1271
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:42,240
what each and every mean and perpetuity

1272
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:44,640
and all these things that will lock you

1273
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:46,720
down forever you must have a great

1274
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:49,119
understanding of these things

1275
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:50,800
not only do you have to be a

1276
00:46:49,119 --> 00:46:53,040
decent musician to make it in this

1277
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,720
business but you have to have an iq

1278
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:57,440
where you can understand what people are

1279
00:46:54,720 --> 00:47:00,480
telling you certain instances where and

1280
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:03,599
you will always be ultimately as a as an

1281
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:05,440
entertainer responsible for what you

1282
00:47:03,599 --> 00:47:07,280
sign your name to

1283
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,920
so as anything you you've got to

1284
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,280
understand that concept now that's not

1285
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,200
easy when you're trying to learn

1286
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,800
rudiments and all this music stuff that

1287
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:18,000
you have to learn but it is very

1288
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:20,480
important in this business to continue

1289
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,680
because one thing that i can say beyond

1290
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:25,520
the fact

1291
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:26,880
that our music has continued within the

1292
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:29,680
aspect of

1293
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:32,000
radio and television and all that stuff

1294
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:34,400
i can also say that the business of the

1295
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,960
ohio players and what we charge and how

1296
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,400
we operate as a business has continued

1297
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,920
likewise

1298
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,240
now there's a reason for that there's a

1299
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:44,079
reason why we're not only playing the

1300
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:45,839
levitts when we played here at some free

1301
00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:48,000
council it's the reason why we play the

1302
00:47:45,839 --> 00:47:50,400
hollywood bowl there's a reason why we

1303
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,160
do all the all the county fairs in los

1304
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:55,280
angeles and california there's a reason

1305
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:58,000
why we played the largest music festival

1306
00:47:55,280 --> 00:48:00,079
in the world in milwaukee wisconsin

1307
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,000
before we played the levitts and that

1308
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:05,920
deals with the business aspect of this

1309
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:08,079
band the pr aspect the the understanding

1310
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:10,559
of the contract and asking for what you

1311
00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:13,200
appropriately think that you deserve all

1312
00:48:10,559 --> 00:48:14,240
those things keep this

1313
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,480
this

1314
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:18,720
operation and this enterprise as the

1315
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:21,839
ohio players continue

1316
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:23,119
and more so than the musicianship to a

1317
00:48:21,839 --> 00:48:26,079
point because

1318
00:48:23,119 --> 00:48:28,480
in some cases dissipates as one might

1319
00:48:26,079 --> 00:48:30,480
get older but the aspect of being

1320
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,839
intelligent enough to know where you are

1321
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:35,839
in this in this business and what you

1322
00:48:32,839 --> 00:48:38,079
deserve can continue on and that's what

1323
00:48:35,839 --> 00:48:39,359
we we've been able to do so that's a

1324
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:42,079
good question and

1325
00:48:39,359 --> 00:48:44,240
education education you know they write

1326
00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:46,319
books that talk about the music business

1327
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:48,640
there's several books that talk about

1328
00:48:46,319 --> 00:48:50,079
the business of music there's been books

1329
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,559
that have you know been written about

1330
00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:54,400
the aspect of publishing and and what

1331
00:48:52,559 --> 00:48:56,480
the properties and what what exists as

1332
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:58,400
far as that contract is concerned you

1333
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,160
just have to look those things up and

1334
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,359
read them and more importantly

1335
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,960
understand

1336
00:49:01,359 --> 00:49:04,640
yeah and i would add

1337
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,240
everything diamond said it's absolutely

1338
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,640
correct there so i've got several of

1339
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:11,040
those books of music big thick books on

1340
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:13,040
it and some other seminars on it but it

1341
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:15,280
is a completely separate thing and if

1342
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,960
you don't pay attention to that

1343
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,040
and if you don't know when you sign your

1344
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:21,200
name what you're committing to really

1345
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:23,839
critical so i can't uh can't

1346
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:25,760
overestimate uh how important it is to

1347
00:49:23,839 --> 00:49:29,200
really understand the business and there

1348
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:31,359
are sources out there uh in the in the

1349
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,280
publishing world books on it

1350
00:49:31,359 --> 00:49:35,520
about the business of music and it's a

1351
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:38,400
big business there's as

1352
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:40,480
you can see the dollars are huge and

1353
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:43,880
everybody wants them so you got to make

1354
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,880
sure you keep

1355
00:49:47,359 --> 00:49:51,040
diamond i noticed on all the ohio

1356
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,880
players records um if you look at the

1357
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:55,280
writing credits it's the whole band was

1358
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:57,119
that a decision that you guys made to

1359
00:49:55,280 --> 00:50:00,079
you know to say instead of like billy

1360
00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:01,680
wrote this song or sugar wrote this song

1361
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:03,920
we all wrote it

1362
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,520
and it happened one follow-up

1363
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,359
there was a decision there were some

1364
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,640
decisions made before i got with the

1365
00:50:07,359 --> 00:50:10,319
band

1366
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,680
i tell you there was a decision made

1367
00:50:10,319 --> 00:50:14,079
before i got with the band that the

1368
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:17,040
first album that you played on as a band

1369
00:50:14,079 --> 00:50:18,720
member you didn't get any credit on

1370
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,760
it was a decision

1371
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:22,960
it

1372
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:25,119
was decided to see if you were devoted

1373
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:27,920
enough to go through that aspect it was

1374
00:50:25,119 --> 00:50:28,960
almost like an initiation period

1375
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,720
um

1376
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:33,040
i didn't realize that when i became part

1377
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:34,640
of the band now i was losing part of my

1378
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,839
writer's rights on ecstasy but

1379
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:38,480
nonetheless

1380
00:50:35,839 --> 00:50:41,359
that was a that was a decision the band

1381
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:44,319
made a decision to keep everything

1382
00:50:41,359 --> 00:50:46,800
tight there was no tighter band in the

1383
00:50:44,319 --> 00:50:48,400
70s than the ohio players when one moved

1384
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,319
we all moved

1385
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,400
when sat said we're leaving we're

1386
00:50:50,319 --> 00:50:54,640
leaving you know

1387
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:57,280
we moved as a group we loved each other

1388
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:59,119
as a family you know we we bought

1389
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,839
extraordinary gifts for each other

1390
00:50:59,119 --> 00:51:04,319
because we loved each other and so we

1391
00:51:01,839 --> 00:51:05,920
didn't want the separation of who was

1392
00:51:04,319 --> 00:51:08,319
doing the right and who wasn't doing the

1393
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:10,720
right separate the spam

1394
00:51:08,319 --> 00:51:13,040
it worked for a while

1395
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:14,079
and then it didn't work

1396
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,880
you know

1397
00:51:14,079 --> 00:51:18,800
things changed and people awareness of

1398
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:21,359
what was going on and all kinds of other

1399
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:24,000
stuff kind of changed the concept of it

1400
00:51:21,359 --> 00:51:26,160
but it kept us together and it kept us

1401
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:29,680
as a unit

1402
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:31,520
and so we all just like within this the

1403
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,960
situation of

1404
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,040
the the

1405
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,440
tax problems getting back to why merle

1406
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:39,359
is appropriately sitting at the stable

1407
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:41,920
you know we all shared in that situation

1408
00:51:39,359 --> 00:51:44,480
likewise you know some of us were

1409
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:47,200
more guilty some of us were less guilty

1410
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:50,000
but we all shared in that responsibility

1411
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:53,119
um you know as they say in the family i

1412
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:56,319
can talk about them but you can't okay

1413
00:51:53,119 --> 00:51:59,359
so um they're my family and i love those

1414
00:51:56,319 --> 00:52:01,680
guys irrespective of of what happened we

1415
00:51:59,359 --> 00:52:04,559
still have so many good memories that

1416
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:07,440
overshadow the bad it's just ridiculous

1417
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:09,920
you know i mean to think about we opened

1418
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:12,480
up the superdome with the jackson 5 with

1419
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:14,319
the first 90 000 that went in that place

1420
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,480
to think about you know being at the

1421
00:52:14,319 --> 00:52:18,640
hammersmith odin with elton john when we

1422
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:21,119
took over number one on the charts and

1423
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,880
he was there to you know to say you know

1424
00:52:21,119 --> 00:52:25,280
congratulate us for that for that

1425
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:27,839
achievement it's been so many things to

1426
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:30,400
say that we went to aretha franklin's

1427
00:52:27,839 --> 00:52:32,160
house to play at our holiday party and

1428
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,000
aretha franklin opened up the door and

1429
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,359
said hi diamond come on in are you

1430
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,680
kidding me

1431
00:52:35,359 --> 00:52:40,000
are you kidding me my daughters was in

1432
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:42,720
her kitchen you know making oxtails with

1433
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:44,640
aretha franklin at a holiday party

1434
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:46,079
it's been so overwhelming the good

1435
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,960
things that have happened in our life

1436
00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:51,440
man we went out and did 20 straight days

1437
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:53,680
with marvin gaye across the country

1438
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,599
we uh and we were a pretty big band at

1439
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,839
that time i remember going to the gig

1440
00:52:55,599 --> 00:53:00,000
and saying gekko what are all these

1441
00:52:57,839 --> 00:53:02,079
ambulances doing here to his gig you

1442
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,920
know they had about 10 ambulances out

1443
00:53:02,079 --> 00:53:05,920
parked in the back and i'm saying what

1444
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,680
is the problem here what's the problem

1445
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:11,200
marvin gaye came out and opened up his

1446
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:13,599
arms and 20 people fell off dead

1447
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,559
they say now that's why they're here

1448
00:53:13,599 --> 00:53:16,960
okay

1449
00:53:14,559 --> 00:53:18,720
we didn't have that marvin gaye power

1450
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,000
i went home and started opening up my

1451
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:22,480
arms and pulling him in the mirror

1452
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:24,480
saying how did he do that what what did

1453
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:27,440
marvin do to do this you know it's like

1454
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:29,359
incredible are you kidding me

1455
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:31,359
people start passing out and he's coming

1456
00:53:29,359 --> 00:53:34,319
on the stage it's like what kind of

1457
00:53:31,359 --> 00:53:35,839
power is that it's more than funky yeah

1458
00:53:34,319 --> 00:53:38,319
that's more than fun

1459
00:53:35,839 --> 00:53:39,839
and so um you know we've had incredible

1460
00:53:38,319 --> 00:53:41,839
times you know dealing with this

1461
00:53:39,839 --> 00:53:44,240
business so it was just to keep the unit

1462
00:53:41,839 --> 00:53:46,640
together and it worked quite well it

1463
00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:48,319
worked quite well please join me in

1464
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:51,800
thanking these two wonderful people for

1465
00:53:48,319 --> 00:53:51,800
this great conversations

1466
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,359
[Music]

1467
00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:56,880
[Applause]

1468
00:53:55,359 --> 00:54:00,960
will take us on the tour of his office

1469
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,960
to see his guitar that's signed